No tapwater active, while using hot water #354
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The logic is quite simple. It uses the boilers current flow temp and checks if the gas/burner is on.
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Hello @proddy. Following answers:
During Tap water use: Warm Water current tap water flow: 0.0 l/min and Gas: on The Central heating was activated. It was very unlikely, that at the moment I opened the hot water tap, that the heating was also activated. For completeness I have attached the complete "info" file. info EMS-ESP system status: EMS Bus status: Boiler data: Thermostat data: Regards Add-on XXX debug for sq4bja: wWCurFlow=0, burnGas=0, tapwaterActive=0, selFlowTemp=82, heatingActive=0 |
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aw, I see the problem. The EMS-ESP web UI picked up the wrong image. Please discard this special version and upload again. The correct version should be 1.9.5b58 |
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Hello proddy, I upgraded to version 1.9.5b58. If you need more info, please let me know. Regards |
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It's because of this: "Warm Water current tap water flow: 0.0 l/min" that value is coming from a telegram with type 0x34. Can you do the following and paste back the log so I can see why the value is 0? |
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Hello proddy, See below. I hope it is sufficient. |
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The value of the water flow is 0. It's coming from: I don't know why. Just run the tap and check with |
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Hello proddy, As expected and as I saw before. It is not changing and stays 0.0 l/min. Regards |
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Hi |
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strange. need to think about this. |
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Hi, |
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yes, looks like we need to find a better solution but would need your help. Could you check the following if you have time:
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Hello, I have installed a new Moduline 400 thermostat March 14, 2020. A week earlier, I have connected the hardware. In that time I had a (non supported) thermostat Moduline 30. This one was connected with a, so called, RCC module with the EMS bus. This RCC module acts as a converter between the old iRT protocol (used by the Moduline 30) and the EMS protocol. This combination is not recognized by the EMS-ESP software. While the Moduline 400 has no indication on its display, while heating and/or tap water is active, the Moduline 30 has a radiator symbol for heating and a tap for tap water active. In my opinion a telegram exists, if tap water is active. Regarding the questions.
It is shown by a LED on the front panel, but not on the Moduline 400.
See below: No hot water running: Hot water running: You will see that at the moment that hot water is running, the central heating is active. a
I will study it and will come back with an answer. Regards |
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I had some time to dive into this issue and gather some more information.
Indeed as FireWizard52 is saying: when using Warm Water, it is shown by a led indicator at the boiler itself but not on the thermostat.
I added the by MQTT published values into a influxDB and created some graphs with Grafana. I made a screenshot of the two tests I did:
Looking at this picture it looks like that a combination of Gas:ON and 3-way-valve:ON means that you are using warm water. When using Central heating, only the Gas is ON. Unfortunately this is not fool proof. Once a while (in my picture below around 80 minutes) the boiler is heating up the water in the storage tank to keep it on the set temperature. So at those times (14:06, 15:26, 16:46, 18:14...) both gas and 3-way-valve are ON bu no warm water usage from the user perspective. This is only to bring the temp in the boiler up to the set level.
I took a good look at the document. Very interesting but I made an English translation first so it was easier to read :-) EMS Telegram 0x18-v1.0.docx (maybe it is useful for others?) For the two tests I captured the raw messages of type 0x18: For central heating it is clear that bit0 of byte 9 is 1 during heating. So far my investigation. I hope It helps.... |
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Hi, I studied the document, but the header indicates EMS2. Is this the same as EMS? Further googlen brought me at: https://www.avrfreaks.net/sites/default/files/forum_attachments/EMSbusReceiveExample1.txt Here I found: This corresponds with:
Found at: http://www.nodo-domotica.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1912 So in my opinion it should be vailable. Regards |
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@FireWizard52 first off, sorry for the delay. Been super busy lately. The perils for working in healthcare. How you investigated this using Gafana to trace the behaviour is wonderful. And the fact that the boiler/thermostat immediately knows when the hot/warm water is activated makes me think there must be a simpler way to detect this since its a core function of a combi-boiler. I think you may have found it! There's a setting which I forgot to capture in the 0x18 telegram called 'warm water'. I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't translated the HT3 doc. Going to try it out now.... |
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Hi Proddy, Thanks for the compliments. As I ended my last post with:
I did some further investigation in this behavior and I was correct with my assumption that this bit1 of byte 9 (Warm Water Mode) corresponds with the Tap Water Active led on the boiler but it is also activated when the boiler is reheating the water in the boiler storage tank. Below a sequence of the reheating of the water in the storage tank while there was NO warm water Usage. If you look at the photo of my boiler you can see that I set my warm water temp to 60 degrees Celsius (dial with tape) and the boiler temp average is indeed kept on 60.39 degrees Celsius looking at the bottom of the Grafana graph.
(16:22:00) 08 00 18 00 07 02 11 00 00 00 00 00 60 01 D8 02 0A 01 3C 00 00 0F 30 48 00 CB 00 00 00 WW Mode ON (16:22:52) 08 00 18 00 57 02 11 7B 00 02 10 4C 60 01 D7 02 09 01 3B 00 00 0F 30 43 01 1B 00 03 00 WW Mode ON and Flame ON
(16:23:00) 08 00 18 00 57 02 43 7B 33 0A 10 6D 60 01 D7 02 07 02 17 00 8F 10 3D 48 00 C9 00 03 00 WW Mode still ON and Flame OFF
(16:23:18) 08 00 18 00 57 03 18 7B 4A 02 10 64 60 01 DB 02 19 02 C4 00 00 10 3D 48 00 C9 00 01 00 WW Mode OFF (16:25:27) 08 00 18 00 07 02 C8 00 00 00 00 00 60 02 1B 02 94 02 C7 00 00 0F 30 48 00 CB 00 00 00 In short this means that sometimes the Warm Water active led is ON even if you don't use hot water but this is by design. This is no problem at all unless you want to use this for the shower timer! On the other hand I think I found an other way detecting the real use of warm water. (19:14:24) 08 00 18 00 07 02 A7 00 00 00 00 00 60 02 23 This temperature drop is not showing up when the boiler is just reheating the storage tank. So maybe Bit1 of Byte 9 So far my 2 cents again and sorry for my long reply..... As you stated that you work in the healthcare, I like to end with "Stay Save" and respect for helping all the people in need! |
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the WW storage tank sensors (1&2) differ for type of boiler and also model (Buderus vs Junkers) so some clever logic is needed. I'm still thinking there must be an easier way, just haven't found it yet. |
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this should be fixed > 2.1.0b4 |
Boiler Type: Nefit Smartline 24 HRC
Thermostat: Moduline 400
It has been noted that the Hot Tap Water indication is not activated, if hot water is used, e.g. during a shower. Instead of the expected Hot Tap Water indication, the Central heating is activated.
Could be a bug.
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