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Change: Increase Anthrax Gamma poison field damage bonus by 20% #2012

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Merged
merged 1 commit into from
Jun 22, 2023

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xezon
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@xezon xezon commented Jun 17, 2023

This change increases the Anthrax Gamma poison field damage bonus by 20%, except Anthrax Bomb.

All poison field weapons deal their damage every 500 ms (533 ms).

Weapon Original Damage (DPS) Patched Damage (DPS)
SmallPoisonFieldWeapon 2.0 (3.75)
SmallPoisonFieldWeaponUpgraded 2.5 (4.69)
Chem_SmallPoisonFieldWeaponGamma 2.5 (4.69) 3.0 (5.63)
MediumPoisonFieldWeapon 2.0 (3.75)
MediumPoisonFieldWeaponUpgraded 2.5 (4.69)
Chem_MediumPoisonFieldWeaponGamma 2.5 (4.69) 3.0 (5.63)
LargePoisonFieldWeapon 15 (28.1)
LargePoisonFieldWeaponUpgraded 25 (46.9)
Chem_LargePoisonFieldWeaponGamma 25 (46.9) 30 (56.3)
AnthraxBombPoisonFieldWeapon 40 (75.0)
AnthraxBetaBombPoisonFieldWeapon 40 (75.0)
AnthraxGammaBombPoisonFieldWeapon 40 (75.0)

Gamma weapons are used by the following things

Chem_SmallPoisonFieldWeaponGamma (OCL_PoisonFieldGammaSmall)

  • Chem_ToxinShellWeaponGamma

Chem_MediumPoisonFieldWeaponGamma (OCL_PoisonFieldGammaMedium, OCL_PoisonFieldGammaMedium_ScudStorm)

  • BombTruckAnthraxGammaBombEffect
  • BombTruckHighExplosiveAnthraxGammaBombEffect (available in Generals Challenge only)
  • Chem_SCUDLauncherGunAnthraxGamma
  • Chem_SCUDLauncherGunAnthraxGammaPlusOne
  • Chem_SCUDLauncherGunAnthraxGammaPlusTwo
  • Chem_SuicideWeaponGamma
  • Chem_DemoTrapDetonationWeaponGamma
  • Chem_GLAVehicleToxinTruck (FireOCLAfterWeaponCooldownUpdate)
  • Chem_ScudStormDeathWeaponGamma

Chem_LargePoisonFieldWeaponGamma (OCL_PoisonFieldGammaLarge)

  • Chem_ScudStormDamageWeaponGamma

Rationale

With this change there is a proper poison field damage bonus continuation from Toxin over Anthrax Beta to Anthrax Gamma, except Anthrax Bomb. The promise of Anthrax Gamma is that Anthrax weapons deal more damage, so design wise it makes most sense that the purple puddles deal more damage than the blue and green ones.

In other changes a few weapon damages of Toxin General have been reduced:

This change gives back some of the lost damages in Gamma weapons.

  1. The nerfed Anthrax Gamma Scud Storm benefits, which is good and logical.
  2. The nerfed Toxin Terrorist benefits, which is good, because now it actually becomes better after the Anthrax Gamma upgrade.
  3. The Anthrax Gamma Scud Launcher benefits, which is good because it does not have the Explosive warhead and is rarely used as highlighted in Toxin GLA SCUD Launcher is rarely used #784.
  4. The Anthrax Gamma Demo Trap benefits, which is good because the Toxin Demo Trap is not attractive to use as highlighted in Toxin GLA Demo Trap is not practical in regular match #802.
  5. The Anthrax Gamma Bomb Truck benefits, which is good because Toxin General does not have the High Explosive upgrade, so a bit more damage for the Anthrax is a nice bonus here.
  6. The Anthrax Gamma Toxin Truck benefits. Affects the idle puddle only, not the Nozzle or Sprayer. Is consistent with concept of increased damages on Toxin Tractor guns with upgrades. Is ok and logical.
  7. The Anthrax Gamma Scorpion Tank benefits. It would not necessarily need more damage, however, it is for late game and the Toxin Scorpion tanks are more expensive, so this is ok and logical.

@xezon xezon added Design Is a matter of game design Controversial Is controversial Minor Severity: Minor < Major < Critical < Blocker Buff Makes a thing more powerful GLA Affects GLA faction labels Jun 17, 2023
@MTKing4
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MTKing4 commented Jun 17, 2023

This is a considerable buff for toxin general that hasn't been ask for nor studied thoroughly, I'm not sure if progression between different poison fields has higher precedence over core balance, this should be tested and studied intensively before going though with it

@xezon
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xezon commented Jun 17, 2023

I think this change is very good. Design is plausible. Damage continuation is reasonable and expected. Damages of small and medium puddles are 4 times weaker than damages of common radiation puddles.

For comparison, here are radiation puddle damages. They deal damage every 750 ms (766 ms).

Weapon Damage DPS
SmallRadiationFieldWeapon 5 6.5
Nuke_SmallRadiationFieldWeapon 15 19.6
MediumRadiationFieldWeapon 15 19.6
LargeRadiationFieldWeapon 25 32.6
NukeRadiationFieldWeapon (Nuke Missile) 25 32.6

This is a considerable buff

I disagree. Damage potential of small and medium poison puddles is rather small.

  • +0.5 damage * 2 * 10 = +10 damage on a small puddle over 10 seconds.
  • +0.5 damage * 2 * 30 = +30 damage on a medium puddle over 30 seconds.

Infantry will die 20% quicker with Gamma. But poison is an insta kill for Infantry in most cases anyway. So not much practical difference, but of course quicker kill is always better.

Against vehicles it is mostly inconsequential, because the damage exposure is small relative to their health and armor. Common vehicles need to stay a long time on puddles to have a notable damage exposure.

Beta Anthrax Damage 2.5 for 30 seconds
Quad Cannon 26%
Scorpion 12%

Gamma Anthrax Damage 3.0 for 30 seconds
Quad Cannon 30%
Scorpion 13%

hasn't been ask for

This is not true. There is 1 direct issue report #799 for it and 2 indirect issue reports related to Toxin General weapons #784, #802. These have been linked in the opening post as well.

hasn't been studied thoroughly

The prospect of this change is conclusive because the weapon logic is simple. Toxin puddles are nowhere near overpowered. They are rather on the weaker side. Good vs infantry, but not good vs common vehicles and structures. This change does not change this promise. It just makes Anthrax Gamma puddles 20% better than Anthrax Beta puddles.

It is a minor and reasonable buff.

@xezon
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xezon commented Jun 17, 2023

Here is the practical difference of pulling GLA Worker through one damage tick of Anthrax Beta vs patched Anthrax Gamma puddle.

anthraxhumandmg

@xezon
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xezon commented Jun 17, 2023

I suspect one of the most notable differences with this change is that common infantry units can no longer move through a Anthrax Gamma toxin shell puddle. They barely survive the Anthrax Beta toxin shell puddle.

generals.2023-06-17.18-12-47-92_1.mp4

@ImTimK
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ImTimK commented Jun 20, 2023

I think an acceptable change, pretty minor.

@xezon
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xezon commented Jun 20, 2023

If GLA ever becomes to weak, these puddle damages would be a nice thing to raise up.

@xezon xezon force-pushed the tweak-anthrax-gamma-damage branch from 6f55d66 to 9aca7f5 Compare June 22, 2023 20:04
@xezon
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xezon commented Jun 22, 2023

Jundiyy

seems okay to merge

Documentation added. Looks good.

Follow up investigation: Anthrax Bomb damages.

@xezon xezon merged commit 7bd7b87 into main Jun 22, 2023
@xezon xezon deleted the tweak-anthrax-gamma-damage branch June 22, 2023 20:08
@commy2
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commy2 commented Jun 22, 2023

With this change, Scorpions, Marauders, Tox Bomb Trucks, Tox Scud Launchers and Tox Demo Traps now actually benefit from Anthrax Gamma. In 1.04, the upgrade only changes the colour of the poison clouds, but not damage.

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Buff Makes a thing more powerful Controversial Is controversial Design Is a matter of game design GameMismatchWith104 Affects game state towards original 1.04 GLA Affects GLA faction Minor Severity: Minor < Major < Critical < Blocker
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Anthrax Gamma Poison Clouds Deal Same Damage As Anthrax Beta Poison Clouds
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