EXT_animation_map extension proposal #1137

msfeldstein · 2017-10-30T20:23:57Z

I'd like to propose an extension we use at facebook to mark up animations to have semantic meanings, so client applications can know what to do with all the animations packaged inside a model. The simplest use case is to target an animation to be the 'enter' animation, and clients will know what to play when the model first appears (think a flower opening, or person waking up). More complicated use cases could be specifying idle/walk/die/birth animations for game assets.

It would be wonderful if this could be shared across the ecosystem so models can be more dynamic without requiring scripting.

pjcozzi · 2017-10-30T23:34:20Z

Awesome! We'll help spread the word to get you some feedback.

RemiArnaud · 2017-10-31T02:27:04Z

Related collada extension already available (maya) https://www.khronos.org/collada/wiki/Animation_clip_OpenCOLLADA_extension

space2 · 2017-10-31T06:01:41Z

In your example you mapped two animations (0 and 3) to the "enter" semantic. In such case (multiple animations mapped to the same semantic) how the animations will be played:

in sequence (i.e. play anim 0 and then anim 3), or
randomly selecting one?

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T11:22:28Z

Extension semantics refer to an "object". What does it mean? Arbitrary glTF asset could contain multiple meshes/nodes/scenes.
glTF doesn't define any "official" way of looping animations, i.e., it's not defined how to interpolate between the last frame and the first frame. Maybe, desired behavior should be stated in the extension spec.
Is it OK to have several bindings with the same semantic?

@pjcozzi We need to register FB extension prefix.

msfeldstein · 2017-10-31T15:04:15Z

@space2 I added some clarification. I believe they should all be played at once, though we could add a type modifier to allow you to play them in sequence, or random if desired. I think playing at once default is good because you could imagine a glTF scene with multiple meshes and a separate animation targetting each.

@lexaknyazev by "object" i mean a literal json object in the array, not a glTF object. Is there a more clear term i could use here?

glTF doesn't define any "official" way of looping animations, i.e., it's not defined how to interpolate between the last frame and the first frame. Maybe, desired behavior should be stated in the extension spec.

What interpolation would there be? Since there is 0 time between the last frame and first frame i would assume no interpolation.

Is it OK to have several bindings with the same semantic?

I think so. Do you see any problems with that? I could see this being useful if we add the 'sequential' play modes suggested by @space2, so that you could have multiple sequential animation lists.

msfeldstein · 2017-10-31T15:08:16Z

also how does naming prefix work? This is an extension proposed by us at FB but i don't think there's anything FB specific about it.

msfeldstein · 2017-10-31T15:09:42Z

@lexaknyazev @space2 perhaps we should default to sequential playback of the animations in each binding object animation array, and just let people add multiple entries for one semantic to play them in parallel.

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T15:17:21Z

My question is about this "object":

Triggered when an object is picked up, for example grabbed in vr, or dragged in WebGL.

Does it mean the whole scene? Or should implementation perform lookup from animation.channel.target to determine affected objects?

What interpolation would there be? Since there is 0 time between the last frame and first frame i would assume no interpolation.

That means that for looping animations, the first and the last frames must have the same values, right?

msfeldstein · 2017-10-31T15:22:16Z

Ah i see, yes that is unclear. I was assuming the target of the animation channel but now that i think about it that could add undue complexity to the clients (for an animation that targets a bunch of bones, and we expect clients to union all those bounding boxes for those bones meshes).

Perhaps it would be better to supply a target Node for any animation with interactivity?

the first and the last frames must have the same values

Yes i think that's up to the animation author to create properly looping animations, i don't think it should be the job of the engine to try to fix that. I could also imagine a non-seamless animation, think a bubble that rises from the ground over and over again, and it looks like a new bubble each time.

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T15:38:37Z

Perhaps it would be better to supply a target Node for any animation with interactivity?

Yes.

we expect clients to union all those bounding boxes for those bones meshes

There was an effort to add pre-computed bounding boxes to skinned meshes. Maybe we should revisit that.

msfeldstein · 2017-10-31T15:46:16Z

I added an optional node list for interactive semantics:

The following semantics require a list of glTF Node objects to specify interaction targets. If the node is omitted, it can be assumed that the entire glTF Scene is the target.

Does this seem satisfactory?

Pre-computed bounding boxes seems very useful, we're already fighting some performance problems trying to compute things on the client (we will get around this by pre-computing it on the server but it would be nice to have it already available in most models).

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T15:55:17Z

Please use plural for array (node -> nodes).

I assume that any node from that list should trigger the animation, since it could be difficult for user to, e.g., grab 3 objects at the same time. On the other hand, there could be use cases for simultaneous conditions (e.g., gaze at several objects at once).

msfeldstein · 2017-10-31T16:00:41Z

updated. that assumption is correct, i specify that any node can trigger the event. The use case for simultaneous conditions can be added later with another property (simultaneous: true or something) but i think we can leave that out for simplicity now.

pjcozzi · 2017-10-31T16:08:48Z

@pjcozzi We need to register FB extension prefix.

See #1139

also how does naming prefix work? This is an extension proposed by us at FB but i don't think there's anything FB specific about it.

@msfeldstein a vendor prefixed extension like FB_ is for an extension that is created by a vendor that is only implemented by the vendor. An EXT_ prefix is for extension with multiple implementations. The KHR_ prefix is for Khronos ratified extensions that go through Khronos' IP process.

For this extension, it is very likely that engines like three.js, Babylon, and Cesium would be interested in implementing it so we might end up wanting to use the EXT_ prefix to avoid namespace churn later - if there are multiple implementations before this is merged.

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T16:18:38Z

extensions/Vendor/FB_animation_map/schema/FB_animation_map.schema.json

+                "animations": {
+                    "type": "array",
+                    "items": {
+                        "type": "number",


number -> integer

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T16:19:02Z

extensions/Vendor/FB_animation_map/schema/FB_animation_map.schema.json

+                "nodes": {
+                    "type": "array",
+                    "items": {
+                        "type": "number",


number -> integer

lexaknyazev · 2017-10-31T16:25:51Z

To follow existing glTF schema usages, please consider adding these properties to animations and nodes definitions:

"uniqueItems": true
"minItems": 1

sbtron · 2017-11-27T22:28:21Z

I think we might be interested in implementing this too. Would it make sense to do a multivendor extension like EXT?

Are there any thoughts on allowing compound semantics like

semantic1 && semantic2
semantic1 || semantic2
semantic1 && !semantic2

/cc @thmignon @najadojo

thmignon · 2018-03-27T18:17:01Z

@sbtron will be reviewing with the rest of the working group when they begin meeting again next week

msfeldstein · 2018-03-27T18:34:21Z

Excellent let me know if you need anything from me

…

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM Tom Mignone ***@***.***> wrote: @sbtron <https://github.com/sbtron> will be reviewing with the rest of the working group when they begin meeting again next week — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1137 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJ1b993J-36U1lm0hcxplnf_WcAK_Ztks5tioIngaJpZM4QLzIM> .

lexaknyazev · 2018-04-04T16:59:32Z

The extension spec says

Animations should be played all at once

Does it mean that in the case like the following one all four animations must be playing at the same time? If so, the description should be more sound.

{
    "extensionsUsed": {
        "EXT_animation_map"
    },
    "extensions" : {
        "EXT_animation_map" : {
              "bindings": [
                  {
                      "semantic": "ENTER",
                      "animations": [0, 3]
                  },
                  {
                      "semantic": "ENTER",
                      "animations": [1, 2]
                  }
              ]
        }
    }
}

msfeldstein · 2018-04-05T03:08:37Z

yes, it looks like you're applying 4 animations to the ENTER semantic. I'm not sure how to change the description for clarity do you have a suggestion?

punkoffice · 2018-05-21T15:59:04Z

Just wondering, has this been added to Facebook? If so, is there any documentation on how to apply animations (armature / vertex) and incorporate it into a GLB for Facebook?

donmccurdy · 2018-05-21T16:07:42Z

@punkoffice No, Facebook does not yet support animation from the core glTF spec. This extension (not required for animation in glTF) in particular should not be implemented unless and until it is out of draft status.

najadojo · 2018-05-31T23:54:38Z

I created a test asset semantics.zip to exercise the implementation of this extension in Windows Mixed Reality.

msfeldstein · 2018-06-01T00:33:48Z

It's implemented in Windows MR home?

…

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:54 PM Jamie Marconi ***@***.***> wrote: I created a test asset semantics.zip <https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/files/2060503/semantics.zip> to exercise the implementation of this extension in Windows Mixed Reality. — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1137 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJ1b6t5it3wTSrriOzgXiiEamKG1IjYks5t4ILGgaJpZM4QLzIM> .

najadojo · 2018-06-01T02:43:46Z

Yes we added it in our most recent update. Capabilities documented at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/creating-3d-models-for-use-in-the-windows-mixed-reality-home#animation-guidelines

msfeldstein · 2018-06-01T15:40:15Z

Now that there is a shipped implementation, what can we do to finalize and solidify this extension? @sbtron

donmccurdy

Because the scope here is narrow and multiple vendors are interested in implementing, I think my concerns above can be considered resolved.

This extension is unusual compared to many others, in the sense that most of its implementation details are left undefined. That's OK with me, as I assume it will be most useful for application-specific situations, and we're guaranteed that models using the extension will load fine in engines that don't support it. But still, we should try to track and codify standard semantics and their use, if that seems to be turning into a pseudo-standard of its own.

donmccurdy · 2018-06-28T00:44:20Z

extensions/Vendor/EXT_animation_map/README.md

+* **LEAVE**: Trigger a single shot animation as the object is leaving the scene or viewport
+* **ALWAYS**: Constantly loop an animation
+
+The following semantics require a list of glTF Node objects to specify interaction targets.  The event is triggered by acting on any of the nodes listed.  If the nodes are omitted, it can be assumed that the entire glTF Scene is the target.


I find this confusing — the section is labeled "example semantics", which leads me to believe it is not normative, but the language here claims these semantics "require" a list of nodes and presumably must be used in a particular way.

I'm guessing that none of this section's content it is meant to be normative, but either way I think this should be spelled out somewhat.

Ah i see the confusion here. The semantics above can operate without any target nodes since they act on the entire object, whereas the ones below need some more info (which nodes to act on). Perhaps better wording would be "Semantics can have a list of nodes indicating which nodes the semantic should act upon if needed". Lemme try to rewrite this

donmccurdy · 2018-06-28T00:46:58Z

extensions/Vendor/EXT_animation_map/schema/EXT_animation_map.schema.json

+    "type" : "object",
+    "definitions": {
+        "semanticBinding": {
+            "type": "object",


I'm not sure how to read these schema definitions so I'll just ask... can a bindings object have extras?

i believe anything in a gltf schema can have extras right?

In that case, semanticBinding definition needs to contain

"allOf": [ { "$ref": "glTFProperty.schema.json" } ],

done, thanks

msfeldstein · 2018-07-09T20:02:06Z

@donmccurdy thoughts on these changes? open to other wordings. It might also make sense to formalize a subset, things like ENTER/LEAVE/ALWAYS are very simple, and useful in almost any context i can think of, while things like GRAB are only for vr-with-hands and probably not ready to be formalized.

msfeldstein · 2018-07-09T22:19:04Z

actually after talking to @sbtron it sounds like it might be better to formalize the semantics listed, and let any other usages be considered non-normative, updated the spec to be stronger in that wording

najadojo · 2018-07-09T22:59:15Z

In Windows MR we now have the ability to specify an animation reset state on the binding by appending _RESET_ON_START, _RESET_ON_STOP, or _DONT_RESET to any of the semantic names provided above. We could transition this to an extras object easily but I think we should have an easy way to add a sematic without editing this spec.

msfeldstein · 2018-07-10T01:12:53Z

ah that might be worth specifying in spec (your addition makes things like enter animations not-compliant). Can you elaborate on what those suffixes mean? I assume DONT_RESET means to hold the final frame of the animation when it finishes, which would be good to add a how does RESET_ON_START work?

CSS calls this animation-fill-mode:forward, THREE calls it clampWhenFinished:true

najadojo · 2018-07-10T14:45:18Z

The reset refers to the key frame time. When the suffix is RESET_ON_START the animation starts at time 0 and the initial pose is applied, the default behavior. When the suffix is DONT_RESET the animation starts at the last time it was running at and that pose is applied, if an animation was stopped before it completes it will pickup where it left off. If DONT_RESET is applied to a completed animation starting it again will do nothing as its already at its final keyframe. When the suffix is RESET_ON_STOP and the animation plays to completion the time will be set at time 0 and the initial pose is applied again.

msfeldstein · 2018-07-10T18:35:36Z

Honestly i don't have enough info about exactly how this should work, i figured things like an ENTER animation will have its final frame match the rest position, so i didn't consider something like this. Perhaps we can move that to a separate property or extra and try to finalize it later?

najadojo · 2018-07-10T19:01:08Z

An extra is fine for this data but it highlights "semantic" is only meaningful in the context in which its applied and custom values should be allowed. That is unless we more completely define the semantics and how they apply to different client conditions. For example I assume ENTER, POINTER_ENTER, and GAZE_ENTER all mean the same thing to the FB feed viewing of a glTF. What does PROXIMITY mean in that context or any 3D in 2D context? I'd also like to have a way that we can extend semantics easily. say if we want to use a joystick or other gesture to start playback.

msfeldstein · 2018-07-10T19:12:32Z

ENTER means the model has entered the scene, POINTER_ENTER is a user interaction. Would it be clearer if i renamed ENTER to APPEAR?

…

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 12:03 PM Jamie Marconi ***@***.***> wrote: An extra is fine for this data but it highlights "semantic" is only meaningful in the context in which its applied and custom values should be allowed. That is unless we more completely define the semantics and how they apply to different client conditions. For example I assume ENTER, POINTER_ENTER, and GAZE_ENTER all mean the same thing to the FB feed viewing of a glTF. What does PROXIMITY mean in that context or any 3D in 2D context? I'd also like to have a way that we can extend semantics easily. say if we want to use a joystick or other gesture to start playback. — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1137 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJ1bxN6I9GNlQ0yDBwGL9KsZG3Gt5Hhks5uFPpsgaJpZM4QLzIM> .

pjcozzi · 2018-07-18T11:59:09Z

@donmccurdy are we close to being able to merge this as a draft?

donmccurdy · 2018-07-18T14:59:04Z

I'm not opposed to merging this as a draft, but not sure whether the thread above is resolved. Will leave that to @msfeldstein and @najadojo, fine to merge when they're ready. Some of the suffixes, e.g. _DONT_RESET, sound like they could be properties of a binding rather than suffixes of a semantic, IMO.

Also wondering if it might be worth following vertex attribute semantics in requiring application-specific semantics to be prefixed with a _, thoughts?

msfeldstein · 2018-07-23T18:01:24Z

It sounds like @najadojo is cool with moving the suffix stuff to an extra property which would unblock that.

The underscore suffix for non-standard semantics seems fine.

@najadojo you ask "For example I assume ENTER, POINTER_ENTER, and GAZE_ENTER all mean the same thing to the FB feed viewing of a glTF. What does PROXIMITY mean in that context or any 3D in 2D context?"

ENTER is different from POINTER_ENTER and GAZE_ENTER, pointer enter and gaze enter don't mean anything in the feed context since there is no pointer or gaze. It should just be ignored. Same with PROXIMITY, if you're not in ar/vr or have some other way to understand proximity then that animatino would be ignored.

pjcozzi · 2019-01-25T22:10:22Z

@msfeldstein @najadojo is this extension in use at Facebook? Is this PR ready to merge or does it need more discussion or changes?

msfeldstein · 2019-01-26T02:49:05Z

It hasn’t shipped in any products at Facebook. I believe Microsoft is using it however

…

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:10 PM Patrick Cozzi ***@***.***> wrote: @msfeldstein <https://github.com/msfeldstein> @najadojo <https://github.com/najadojo> is this extension in use at Facebook? Is this PR ready to merge or does it need more discussion or changes? — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1137 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJ1b1EV6UjzOdHudyEa3EtOHVvssLxSks5vG4DYgaJpZM4QLzIM> .

najadojo · 2019-01-28T16:24:03Z

That is correct Windows Mixed Reality is using this extension. Though we do have some current limitations and modifications that are not part of this extension description. Our documentation can be found at Animation guidelines.

pjcozzi · 2019-01-29T00:00:17Z

Thanks for the quick response, @msfeldstein @najadojo!

Though we do have some current limitations and modifications that are not part of this extension description. Our documentation can be found at Animation guidelines.

@sbtron @najadojo do you think someone at Microsoft would be willing to update this so we can merge it?

msfeldstein added 2 commits October 26, 2017 13:37

Add EXT_animation_map extension spec

730df4e

EXT -> FB

2bb65b0

msfeldstein changed the title ~~EXT_animation_map extension proposal~~ FB_animation_map extension proposal Oct 30, 2017

pjcozzi added the extension label Oct 30, 2017

msfeldstein added 2 commits October 31, 2017 07:59

Clarify animation play type

6a022ac

serial->sequential

5cf7dba

Specify Nodes for interactive animations

09ea0c8

pjcozzi mentioned this pull request Oct 31, 2017

Add FB extension prefix for Facebook #1139

Merged

node->nodes, specify that any node can trigger

cfa2bf7

Update to specify that it can be any nodes triggering

24901c3

lexaknyazev reviewed Oct 31, 2017

View reviewed changes

number --> integer

d7a5a25

Add unique items and min items

04f7005

donmccurdy reviewed Jun 28, 2018

View reviewed changes

Update the semantics/nodes binding wording

551b19d

Mike Feldstein added 2 commits July 9, 2018 13:04

Update the semantics/nodes binding wording

bb1e9fb

formalize semantic names

d7761f8

Add glTF property schemas to animation map schema

955ec8b

EXT_animation_map extension proposal #1137

Are you sure you want to change the base?

EXT_animation_map extension proposal #1137

Conversation

msfeldstein commented Oct 30, 2017

pjcozzi commented Oct 30, 2017

RemiArnaud commented Oct 31, 2017

space2 commented Oct 31, 2017

lexaknyazev commented Oct 31, 2017

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017

lexaknyazev commented Oct 31, 2017

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017 • edited Loading

lexaknyazev commented Oct 31, 2017

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017

lexaknyazev commented Oct 31, 2017

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017 • edited Loading

pjcozzi commented Oct 31, 2017

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

lexaknyazev commented Oct 31, 2017

sbtron commented Nov 27, 2017

thmignon commented Mar 27, 2018

msfeldstein commented Mar 27, 2018 via email

lexaknyazev commented Apr 4, 2018

msfeldstein commented Apr 5, 2018

punkoffice commented May 21, 2018

donmccurdy commented May 21, 2018

najadojo commented May 31, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jun 1, 2018 via email

najadojo commented Jun 1, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jun 1, 2018 • edited Loading

donmccurdy left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

msfeldstein commented Jul 9, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jul 9, 2018

najadojo commented Jul 9, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jul 10, 2018

najadojo commented Jul 10, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jul 10, 2018

najadojo commented Jul 10, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jul 10, 2018 via email

pjcozzi commented Jul 18, 2018

donmccurdy commented Jul 18, 2018

msfeldstein commented Jul 23, 2018

pjcozzi commented Jan 25, 2019

msfeldstein commented Jan 26, 2019 via email

najadojo commented Jan 28, 2019

pjcozzi commented Jan 29, 2019

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017 •

edited

Loading

msfeldstein commented Oct 31, 2017 •

edited

Loading

msfeldstein commented Jun 1, 2018 •

edited

Loading