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[{"kind": "Listing", "data": {"after": null, "dist": 1, "modhash": "7kg8l9ltgcc70cf38045b32f459de710a2a79aba422fed2d86", "geo_filter": "", "children": [{"kind": "t3", "data": {"approved_at_utc": null, "subreddit": "personalfinance", "selftext": "I'm a DIY investor that tries to implement the advice given in the Lifecycle Investing book - to use moderate leverage in the initial years of investing for future retirement. \n\nThe authors suggested several ways to gain this leverage, including buying long-term call options with the strike price equal to half of the price of the underlying. So-called LEAPs.\n\nWhether it is the best way to get leverage is out of the scope of this question, but one of the reasons is that they allow obtaining leverage for a reasonable price in a cash account and not worry about possible margin calls. There are naturally some downsides like lower liquidity. \n\nHere are the desired characteristics of the suitable LEAPs:\n\n1. Costs below $100k for a sold lot. Counter-example - options on the raw S&P500 index, which are very expensive. \n\n2. They need to be reasonably diversified and low-cost, so it can be either a low-cost ETF or an index, but not a single stock or expensive leveraged fund.\n\n3. There are open orders with some activity for the deep-in-the-money strike price equal to 50% of the price of underlying. Counterexample - S&P/ASX200 options on ASX. It fits other criteria but seems to be completely illiquid this far in the money. \n\n4. European options are preferable to American ones because they simplify logistics by not requiring early exercises when the dividend is paid, but it's not a must. \n\n5. Cash settle is preferable to physical delivery, but it's not a must either.\n\n6. The options should have at least a half a year expiration date.\n\n\nHere are some examples of what I found so far that match these criteria. The prices are approximate values for the call option contract at around 50% of the underlying price. A DIY investor can realistically buy them.\n\n- VNQ ~$4800\n- IJR ~$5600 \n- VBR ~$8800\n- VTI ~$11000\n- IWM ~$11700 \n- QQQ ~$18000\n- VOO ~$19500\n- SPY ~$20000\n- ESTX50 ~\u20ac20000 - ideal: European, raw index, cash-settled, rather liquid \n- K200 ~$40000\n- RUT ~$110000 - good, but very pricey\n\n\nI would like to assemble a reasonably larger list of investment options fitting for this strategy, so the question is:\n\n**Which other such options exist in the market today, suitable for DIY investors with cash accounts?**", "user_reports": [], "saved": false, "mod_reason_title": null, "gilded": 0, "clicked": false, "title": "Leverage through LEAPs for the DIY investor", "link_flair_richtext": [], "subreddit_name_prefixed": "r/personalfinance", "hidden": false, "pwls": 6, "link_flair_css_class": "Investing", "downs": 0, "top_awarded_type": null, "parent_whitelist_status": "all_ads", "hide_score": false, "name": "t3_owhy0r", "quarantine": false, "link_flair_text_color": "light", "upvote_ratio": 0.38, "author_flair_background_color": "", "subreddit_type": "public", "ups": 0, "total_awards_received": 0, "media_embed": {}, "author_flair_template_id": null, "is_original_content": false, "author_fullname": "t2_1pttamb7", "secure_media": null, "is_reddit_media_domain": false, "is_meta": false, "category": null, "secure_media_embed": {}, "link_flair_text": "Investing", "can_mod_post": false, "score": 0, "approved_by": null, "is_created_from_ads_ui": false, "author_premium": false, "thumbnail": "", "edited": 1627922309.0, "author_flair_css_class": "", "author_flair_richtext": [], "gildings": {}, "content_categories": null, "is_self": true, "mod_note": null, "created": 1627921242.0, "link_flair_type": "text", "wls": 6, "removed_by_category": null, "banned_by": null, "author_flair_type": "text", "domain": "self.personalfinance", "allow_live_comments": false, "selftext_html": "<!-- SC_OFF --><div class=\"md\"><p>I'm a DIY investor that tries to implement the advice given in the Lifecycle Investing book - to use moderate leverage in the initial years of investing for future retirement. </p>\n\n<p>The authors suggested several ways to gain this leverage, including buying long-term call options with the strike price equal to half of the price of the underlying. So-called LEAPs.</p>\n\n<p>Whether it is the best way to get leverage is out of the scope of this question, but one of the reasons is that they allow obtaining leverage for a reasonable price in a cash account and not worry about possible margin calls. There are naturally some downsides like lower liquidity. </p>\n\n<p>Here are the desired characteristics of the suitable LEAPs:</p>\n\n<ol>\n<li><p>Costs below $100k for a sold lot. Counter-example - options on the raw S&P500 index, which are very expensive. </p></li>\n<li><p>They need to be reasonably diversified and low-cost, so it can be either a low-cost ETF or an index, but not a single stock or expensive leveraged fund.</p></li>\n<li><p>There are open orders with some activity for the deep-in-the-money strike price equal to 50% of the price of underlying. Counterexample - S&P/ASX200 options on ASX. It fits other criteria but seems to be completely illiquid this far in the money. </p></li>\n<li><p>European options are preferable to American ones because they simplify logistics by not requiring early exercises when the dividend is paid, but it's not a must. </p></li>\n<li><p>Cash settle is preferable to physical delivery, but it's not a must either.</p></li>\n<li><p>The options should have at least a half a year expiration date.</p></li>\n</ol>\n\n<p>Here are some examples of what I found so far that match these criteria. The prices are approximate values for the call option contract at around 50% of the underlying price. A DIY investor can realistically buy them.</p>\n\n<ul>\n<li>VNQ ~$4800</li>\n<li>IJR ~$5600 </li>\n<li>VBR ~$8800</li>\n<li>VTI ~$11000</li>\n<li>IWM ~$11700 </li>\n<li>QQQ ~$18000</li>\n<li>VOO ~$19500</li>\n<li>SPY ~$20000</li>\n<li>ESTX50 ~\u20ac20000 - ideal: European, raw index, cash-settled, rather liquid </li>\n<li>K200 ~$40000</li>\n<li>RUT ~$110000 - good, but very pricey</li>\n</ul>\n\n<p>I would like to assemble a reasonably larger list of investment options fitting for this strategy, so the question is:</p>\n\n<p><strong>Which other such options exist in the market today, suitable for DIY investors with cash accounts?</strong></p>\n</div><!-- SC_ON -->", "likes": true, "suggested_sort": null, "banned_at_utc": null, "view_count": null, "archived": false, "no_follow": false, "is_crosspostable": true, "pinned": false, "over_18": false, "all_awardings": [], "awarders": [], "media_only": false, "link_flair_template_id": "1c57f8a6-c078-11e4-9e41-22000b39cb96", "can_gild": false, "spoiler": false, "locked": false, "author_flair_text": "\u200b", "treatment_tags": [], "rte_mode": "markdown", "visited": false, "removed_by": null, "num_reports": null, "distinguished": null, "subreddit_id": "t5_2qstm", "author_is_blocked": false, "mod_reason_by": null, "removal_reason": null, "link_flair_background_color": "#bf2249", "id": "owhy0r", "is_robot_indexable": true, "num_duplicates": 0, "report_reasons": null, "author": "Kvantil1", "discussion_type": null, "num_comments": 4, "send_replies": true, "media": null, "contest_mode": false, "author_patreon_flair": false, "author_flair_text_color": "dark", "permalink": "/r/personalfinance/comments/owhy0r/leverage_through_leaps_for_the_diy_investor/", "whitelist_status": "all_ads", "stickied": false, "url": "https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/owhy0r/leverage_through_leaps_for_the_diy_investor/", "subreddit_subscribers": 14795778, "created_utc": 1627921242.0, "num_crossposts": 0, "mod_reports": [], "is_video": false}}], "before": null}}, {"kind": "Listing", "data": {"after": null, "dist": null, "modhash": "7kg8l9ltgcc70cf38045b32f459de710a2a79aba422fed2d86", "geo_filter": "", "children": [{"kind": "t1", "data": {"total_awards_received": 0, "approved_at_utc": null, "author_is_blocked": false, "comment_type": null, "awarders": [], "mod_reason_by": null, "banned_by": null, "ups": 2, "author_flair_type": "text", "removal_reason": null, "link_id": "t3_owhy0r", "author_flair_template_id": null, "likes": null, "replies": {"kind": "Listing", "data": {"after": null, "dist": null, "modhash": "7kg8l9ltgcc70cf38045b32f459de710a2a79aba422fed2d86", "geo_filter": "", "children": [{"kind": "t1", "data": {"total_awards_received": 0, "approved_at_utc": null, "author_is_blocked": false, "comment_type": null, "awarders": [], "mod_reason_by": null, "banned_by": null, "ups": 1, "author_flair_type": "text", "removal_reason": null, "link_id": "t3_owhy0r", "author_flair_template_id": null, "likes": true, "replies": {"kind": "Listing", "data": {"after": null, "dist": null, "modhash": "7kg8l9ltgcc70cf38045b32f459de710a2a79aba422fed2d86", "geo_filter": "", "children": [{"kind": "t1", "data": {"total_awards_received": 0, "approved_at_utc": null, "author_is_blocked": false, "comment_type": null, "awarders": [], "mod_reason_by": null, "banned_by": null, "ups": 1, "author_flair_type": "text", "removal_reason": null, "link_id": "t3_owhy0r", "author_flair_template_id": null, "likes": null, "replies": {"kind": "Listing", "data": {"after": null, "dist": null, "modhash": "7kg8l9ltgcc70cf38045b32f459de710a2a79aba422fed2d86", "geo_filter": "", "children": [{"kind": "t1", "data": {"total_awards_received": 0, "approved_at_utc": null, "author_is_blocked": false, "comment_type": null, "awarders": [], "mod_reason_by": null, "banned_by": null, "ups": 1, "author_flair_type": "text", "removal_reason": null, "link_id": "t3_owhy0r", "author_flair_template_id": null, "likes": true, "replies": "", "author_fullname": "t2_1pttamb7", "saved": false, "id": "h7gxv4h", "banned_at_utc": null, "mod_reason_title": null, "gilded": 0, "archived": false, "collapsed_reason_code": null, "no_follow": false, "author": "Kvantil1", "can_mod_post": false, "send_replies": true, "parent_id": "t1_h7gjybj", "score": 1, "approved_by": null, "report_reasons": null, "author_premium": false, "all_awardings": [], "subreddit_id": "t5_2qstm", "body": "This is true, but the fees are still substantially worse than for SPY, for example.\n\nMy research might not be complete, but the most popular leveraged ETFs have expense ratios approaching 1%-2%. In 15 years of investing this will eat up a noticeable part of possible income. \n\nCompare this with the options on the raw ESTX50 - 0% expenses, there will be a 30% difference in results if assume 7% average performance.\n\nThis might not be the same for everybody, but I'd say some logistic hassle with options may be worth this.", "edited": false, "user_reports": [], "author_flair_css_class": "", "downs": 0, "is_submitter": true, "collapsed": false, "author_flair_richtext": [], "author_patreon_flair": false, "body_html": "<div class=\"md\"><p>This is true, but the fees are still substantially worse than for SPY, for example.</p>\n\n<p>My research might not be complete, but the most popular leveraged ETFs have expense ratios approaching 1%-2%. In 15 years of investing this will eat up a noticeable part of possible income. </p>\n\n<p>Compare this with the options on the raw ESTX50 - 0% expenses, there will be a 30% difference in results if assume 7% average performance.</p>\n\n<p>This might not be the same for everybody, but I'd say some logistic hassle with options may be worth this.</p>\n</div>", "gildings": {}, "collapsed_reason": null, "associated_award": null, "stickied": false, "subreddit_type": "public", "can_gild": false, "top_awarded_type": null, "author_flair_text_color": "dark", "score_hidden": false, "permalink": "/r/personalfinance/comments/owhy0r/leverage_through_leaps_for_the_diy_investor/h7gxv4h/", "num_reports": null, "locked": false, "name": "t1_h7gxv4h", "created": 1627935949.0, "subreddit": "personalfinance", "author_flair_text": "\u200b", "treatment_tags": [], "rte_mode": "richtext", "created_utc": 1627935949.0, "subreddit_name_prefixed": "r/personalfinance", "controversiality": 0, "depth": 3, "author_flair_background_color": "", "collapsed_because_crowd_control": null, "mod_reports": [], "mod_note": null, "distinguished": null}}], "before": null}}, "author_fullname": "t2_7xo3h2q9", "saved": false, "id": "h7gjybj", "banned_at_utc": null, "mod_reason_title": null, "gilded": 0, "archived": false, "collapsed_reason_code": null, "no_follow": true, "author": "bball2025", "can_mod_post": false, "created_utc": 1627929870.0, "send_replies": true, "parent_id": "t1_h7g4ftg", "score": 1, "approved_by": null, "report_reasons": null, "author_premium": false, "all_awardings": [], "subreddit_id": "t5_2qstm", "body": "That is not really true, fee's are about average from industry perspective and you can find low cost ones out there.  Buying retail LEAPs will be costly at the size you are describing, also LEAPs involve a higher degree of risk in terms of selecting a profitable security and time frame.\n\nNot sure what you mean about diversification, there are leveraged index funds for must main stream markets, both international and domestic.", "edited": false, "user_reports": [], "author_flair_css_class": "", "is_submitter": false, "downs": 0, "author_flair_richtext": [], "author_patreon_flair": false, "body_html": "<div class=\"md\"><p>That is not really true, fee's are about average from industry perspective and you can find low cost ones out there.  Buying retail LEAPs will be costly at the size you are describing, also LEAPs involve a higher degree of risk in terms of selecting a profitable security and time frame.</p>\n\n<p>Not sure what you mean about diversification, there are leveraged index funds for must main stream markets, both international and domestic.</p>\n</div>", "gildings": {}, "collapsed_reason": null, "associated_award": null, "stickied": false, "subreddit_type": "public", "can_gild": true, "top_awarded_type": null, "author_flair_text_color": "dark", "score_hidden": false, "permalink": "/r/personalfinance/comments/owhy0r/leverage_through_leaps_for_the_diy_investor/h7gjybj/", "num_reports": null, "locked": false, "name": "t1_h7gjybj", "created": 1627929870.0, "subreddit": "personalfinance", "author_flair_text": "\u200b", "treatment_tags": [], "collapsed": false, "subreddit_name_prefixed": "r/personalfinance", "controversiality": 0, "depth": 2, "author_flair_background_color": "", "collapsed_because_crowd_control": null, "mod_reports": [], "mod_note": null, "distinguished": null}}], "before": null}}, "author_fullname": "t2_1pttamb7", "saved": false, "id": "h7g4ftg", "banned_at_utc": null, "mod_reason_title": null, "gilded": 0, "archived": false, "collapsed_reason_code": null, "no_follow": false, "author": "Kvantil1", "can_mod_post": false, "send_replies": true, "parent_id": "t1_h7g3sh4", "score": 1, "approved_by": null, "report_reasons": null, "author_premium": false, "all_awardings": [], "subreddit_id": "t5_2qstm", "collapsed": false, "body": "Their high fees are the reason to avoid them, to my understanding. Since we're talking about long-term investments there, they really going to eat up the gains in the end.\n\nAlso, there are probably not enough of those to achieve proper global diversification.", "edited": 1627928379.0, "user_reports": [], "author_flair_css_class": "", "is_submitter": true, "downs": 0, "author_flair_richtext": [], "author_patreon_flair": false, "body_html": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Their high fees are the reason to avoid them, to my understanding. Since we're talking about long-term investments there, they really going to eat up the gains in the end.</p>\n\n<p>Also, there are probably not enough of those to achieve proper global diversification.</p>\n</div>", "gildings": {}, "collapsed_reason": null, "associated_award": null, "stickied": false, "subreddit_type": "public", "can_gild": false, "top_awarded_type": null, "author_flair_text_color": "dark", "score_hidden": false, "permalink": "/r/personalfinance/comments/owhy0r/leverage_through_leaps_for_the_diy_investor/h7g4ftg/", "num_reports": null, "locked": false, "name": "t1_h7g4ftg", "created": 1627923163.0, "subreddit": "personalfinance", "author_flair_text": "\u200b", "treatment_tags": [], "rte_mode": "richtext", "created_utc": 1627923163.0, "subreddit_name_prefixed": "r/personalfinance", "controversiality": 0, "depth": 1, "author_flair_background_color": "", "collapsed_because_crowd_control": null, "mod_reports": [], "mod_note": null, "distinguished": null}}], "before": null}}, "author_fullname": "t2_7xo3h2q9", "saved": false, "id": "h7g3sh4", "banned_at_utc": null, "mod_reason_title": null, "gilded": 0, "archived": false, "collapsed_reason_code": null, "no_follow": true, "author": "bball2025", "can_mod_post": false, "send_replies": true, "parent_id": "t3_owhy0r", "score": 2, "approved_by": null, "report_reasons": null, "author_premium": false, "all_awardings": [], "subreddit_id": "t5_2qstm", "body": "what about leveraged ETFs ?  less complicated", "edited": false, "user_reports": [], "author_flair_css_class": "", "downs": 0, "is_submitter": false, "collapsed": false, "author_flair_richtext": [], "author_patreon_flair": false, "body_html": "<div class=\"md\"><p>what about leveraged ETFs ?  less complicated</p>\n</div>", "gildings": {}, "collapsed_reason": null, "associated_award": null, "stickied": false, "subreddit_type": "public", "can_gild": true, "top_awarded_type": null, "author_flair_text_color": "dark", "score_hidden": false, "permalink": "/r/personalfinance/comments/owhy0r/leverage_through_leaps_for_the_diy_investor/h7g3sh4/", "num_reports": null, "locked": false, "name": "t1_h7g3sh4", "created": 1627922886.0, "subreddit": "personalfinance", "author_flair_text": "\u200b", "treatment_tags": [], "created_utc": 1627922886.0, "subreddit_name_prefixed": "r/personalfinance", "controversiality": 0, "depth": 0, "author_flair_background_color": "", "collapsed_because_crowd_control": null, "mod_reports": [], "mod_note": null, "distinguished": null}}], "before": null}}]