diff --git a/Doc/library/sys.rst b/Doc/library/sys.rst
index 40d0ef80a3fe43..222cf0e5792ff6 100644
--- a/Doc/library/sys.rst
+++ b/Doc/library/sys.rst
@@ -907,6 +907,35 @@ always available.
       It is not guaranteed to exist in all implementations of Python.
 
 
+.. function:: getobjects(limit[, type])
+
+   This function only exists if CPython was built using the
+   specialized configure option :option:`--with-trace-refs`.
+   It is intended only for debugging garbage-collection issues.
+
+   Return a list of up to *limit* dynamically allocated Python objects.
+   If *type* is given, only objects of that exact type (not subtypes)
+   are included.
+
+   Objects from the list are not safe to use.
+   Specifically, the result will include objects from all interpreters that
+   share their object allocator state (that is, ones created with
+   :c:member:`PyInterpreterConfig.use_main_obmalloc` set to 1
+   or using :c:func:`Py_NewInterpreter`, and the
+   :ref:`main interpreter <sub-interpreter-support>`).
+   Mixing objects from different interpreters may lead to crashes
+   or other unexpected behavior.
+
+   .. impl-detail::
+
+      This function should be used for specialized purposes only.
+      It is not guaranteed to exist in all implementations of Python.
+
+   .. versionchanged:: next
+
+      The result may include objects from other interpreters.
+
+
 .. function:: getprofile()
 
    .. index::
diff --git a/Doc/using/configure.rst b/Doc/using/configure.rst
index 51af4e3b7ad7a8..fed1d1e2c75940 100644
--- a/Doc/using/configure.rst
+++ b/Doc/using/configure.rst
@@ -459,7 +459,7 @@ Debug options
    Effects:
 
    * Define the ``Py_TRACE_REFS`` macro.
-   * Add :func:`!sys.getobjects` function.
+   * Add :func:`sys.getobjects` function.
    * Add :envvar:`PYTHONDUMPREFS` environment variable.
 
    This build is not ABI compatible with release build (default build) or debug
diff --git a/Doc/whatsnew/3.12.rst b/Doc/whatsnew/3.12.rst
index 5c36e2d4bcfb49..0ba1f55f731a2a 100644
--- a/Doc/whatsnew/3.12.rst
+++ b/Doc/whatsnew/3.12.rst
@@ -2294,3 +2294,14 @@ email
   check if the *strict* paramater is available.
   (Contributed by Thomas Dwyer and Victor Stinner for :gh:`102988` to improve
   the CVE-2023-27043 fix.)
+
+
+Notable changes in 3.12.8
+=========================
+
+sys
+---
+
+* The previously undocumented special function :func:`sys.getobjects`,
+  which only exists in specialized builds of Python, may now return objects
+  from other interpreters than the one it's called in.
diff --git a/Include/internal/pycore_object_state.h b/Include/internal/pycore_object_state.h
index 65feb5af969f8b..6e07b1a01b0e34 100644
--- a/Include/internal/pycore_object_state.h
+++ b/Include/internal/pycore_object_state.h
@@ -24,7 +24,13 @@ struct _py_object_state {
      * together via the _ob_prev and _ob_next members of a PyObject, which
      * exist only in a Py_TRACE_REFS build.
      */
-    PyObject refchain;
+    PyObject *refchain;
+    /* In most cases, refchain points to _refchain_obj.
+     * In sub-interpreters that share objmalloc state with the main interp,
+     * refchain points to the main interpreter's _refchain_obj, and their own
+     * _refchain_obj is unused.
+     */
+    PyObject _refchain_obj;
 #endif
     int _not_used;
 };
diff --git a/Include/internal/pycore_runtime_init.h b/Include/internal/pycore_runtime_init.h
index e5f9e17efff24b..ad90ea680a52c3 100644
--- a/Include/internal/pycore_runtime_init.h
+++ b/Include/internal/pycore_runtime_init.h
@@ -132,15 +132,8 @@ extern PyTypeObject _PyExc_MemoryError;
         .context_ver = 1, \
     }
 
-#ifdef Py_TRACE_REFS
-# define _py_object_state_INIT(INTERP) \
-    { \
-        .refchain = {&INTERP.object_state.refchain, &INTERP.object_state.refchain}, \
-    }
-#else
 # define _py_object_state_INIT(INTERP) \
     { 0 }
-#endif
 
 
 // global objects
diff --git a/Objects/object.c b/Objects/object.c
index 648ea1f75d08fe..706719116da3e2 100644
--- a/Objects/object.c
+++ b/Objects/object.c
@@ -159,11 +159,27 @@ _PyDebug_PrintTotalRefs(void) {
 
 #ifdef Py_TRACE_REFS
 
-#define REFCHAIN(interp) &interp->object_state.refchain
+#define REFCHAIN(interp) interp->object_state.refchain
+
+static inline int
+has_own_refchain(PyInterpreterState *interp)
+{
+    if (interp->feature_flags & Py_RTFLAGS_USE_MAIN_OBMALLOC) {
+        return (_Py_IsMainInterpreter(interp)
+            || _PyInterpreterState_Main() == NULL);
+    }
+    return 1;
+}
 
 static inline void
 init_refchain(PyInterpreterState *interp)
 {
+    if (!has_own_refchain(interp)) {
+        // Legacy subinterpreters share a refchain with the main interpreter.
+        REFCHAIN(interp) = REFCHAIN(_PyInterpreterState_Main());
+        return;
+    }
+    REFCHAIN(interp) = &interp->object_state._refchain_obj;
     PyObject *refchain = REFCHAIN(interp);
     refchain->_ob_prev = refchain;
     refchain->_ob_next = refchain;
@@ -2010,9 +2026,7 @@ void
 _PyObject_InitState(PyInterpreterState *interp)
 {
 #ifdef Py_TRACE_REFS
-    if (!_Py_IsMainInterpreter(interp)) {
-        init_refchain(interp);
-    }
+    init_refchain(interp);
 #endif
 }
 
@@ -2218,42 +2232,6 @@ _Py_NewReferenceNoTotal(PyObject *op)
 
 
 #ifdef Py_TRACE_REFS
-/* Make sure the ref is associated with the right interpreter.
- * This only needs special attention for heap-allocated objects
- * that have been immortalized, and only when the object might
- * outlive the interpreter where it was created.  That means the
- * object was necessarily created using a global allocator
- * (i.e. from the main interpreter).  Thus in that specific case
- * we move the object over to the main interpreter's refchain.
- *
- * This was added for the sake of the immortal interned strings,
- * where legacy subinterpreters share the main interpreter's
- * interned dict (and allocator), and therefore the strings can
- * outlive the subinterpreter.
- *
- * It may make sense to fold this into _Py_SetImmortalUntracked(),
- * but that requires further investigation.  In the meantime, it is
- * up to the caller to know if this is needed.  There should be
- * very few cases.
- */
-void
-_Py_NormalizeImmortalReference(PyObject *op)
-{
-    assert(_Py_IsImmortal(op));
-    PyInterpreterState *interp = _PyInterpreterState_GET();
-    if (!_PyRefchain_IsTraced(interp, op)) {
-        return;
-    }
-    PyInterpreterState *main_interp = _PyInterpreterState_Main();
-    if (interp != main_interp
-           && interp->feature_flags & Py_RTFLAGS_USE_MAIN_OBMALLOC)
-    {
-        assert(!_PyRefchain_IsTraced(main_interp, op));
-        _PyRefchain_Remove(interp, op);
-        _PyRefchain_Trace(main_interp, op);
-    }
-}
-
 void
 _Py_ForgetReference(PyObject *op)
 {
diff --git a/Objects/unicodeobject.c b/Objects/unicodeobject.c
index 642ffd78d311df..8112c740c3c4ca 100644
--- a/Objects/unicodeobject.c
+++ b/Objects/unicodeobject.c
@@ -14966,10 +14966,6 @@ _PyUnicode_InternStatic(PyInterpreterState *interp, PyObject **p)
     assert(*p);
 }
 
-#ifdef Py_TRACE_REFS
-extern void _Py_NormalizeImmortalReference(PyObject *);
-#endif
-
 static void
 immortalize_interned(PyObject *s)
 {
@@ -14985,10 +14981,6 @@ immortalize_interned(PyObject *s)
 #endif
     _PyUnicode_STATE(s).interned = SSTATE_INTERNED_IMMORTAL;
     _Py_SetImmortal(s);
-#ifdef Py_TRACE_REFS
-    /* Make sure the ref is associated with the right interpreter. */
-    _Py_NormalizeImmortalReference(s);
-#endif
 }
 
 static /* non-null */ PyObject*
diff --git a/Python/pylifecycle.c b/Python/pylifecycle.c
index 6d580c6d4892fd..e9c1a0d72d6d4d 100644
--- a/Python/pylifecycle.c
+++ b/Python/pylifecycle.c
@@ -650,6 +650,10 @@ pycore_create_interpreter(_PyRuntimeState *runtime,
         return status;
     }
 
+    // This could be done in init_interpreter() (in pystate.c) if it
+    // didn't depend on interp->feature_flags being set already.
+    _PyObject_InitState(interp);
+
     PyThreadState *tstate = _PyThreadState_New(interp);
     if (tstate == NULL) {
         return _PyStatus_ERR("can't make first thread");
@@ -2103,6 +2107,10 @@ new_interpreter(PyThreadState **tstate_p, const PyInterpreterConfig *config)
         goto error;
     }
 
+    // This could be done in init_interpreter() (in pystate.c) if it
+    // didn't depend on interp->feature_flags being set already.
+    _PyObject_InitState(interp);
+
     status = init_interp_create_gil(tstate, config->gil);
     if (_PyStatus_EXCEPTION(status)) {
         goto error;
diff --git a/Python/pystate.c b/Python/pystate.c
index d0651fbd592f43..ae86fd1c0fcb3d 100644
--- a/Python/pystate.c
+++ b/Python/pystate.c
@@ -686,7 +686,9 @@ init_interpreter(PyInterpreterState *interp,
                 _obmalloc_pools_INIT(interp->obmalloc.pools);
         memcpy(&interp->obmalloc.pools.used, temp, sizeof(temp));
     }
-    _PyObject_InitState(interp);
+
+    // We would call _PyObject_InitState() at this point
+    // if interp->feature_flags were alredy set.
 
     _PyEval_InitState(interp, pending_lock);
     _PyGC_InitState(&interp->gc);