Better POIs priorities

[LucieGueuning]

No description provided.

[Jorieke]

In general I do think all food and drinks and shops could appear only on the zoom level 18

[yohanboniface]

@Jorieke @LucieGueuning a lot of POIs start to be rendered at zoom 17, do you want to filter out which of those should stay at zoom 17 and which should move at zoom 18 (or maybe other levels)?
Here is the list (main here is a merge of amenity, shop and so, I think you'll get it :) ):

        [main='kindergarten'],
        [main='school'],
        [main='university'],
        [main='police'],
        [main='drinking_water'],
        [main='grave_yard'],
        [main='cinema'],
        [main='cafe'],
        [main='bar'],
        [main='restaurant'],
        [main='toilets'],
        [main='shower'],
        [main='fuel'],
        [main='bank'],
        [main='pharmacy'],
        [main='townhall'],
        [main='taxi'],
        [main='studio'],
        [main='car_rental'],
        [main='money_transfer'],
        [main='social_facility'],
        [main='community_centre'],
        [main='arts_centre'],
        [main='dentist'],
        [main='fast_food'],
        [main='library'],
        [main='bureau_de_change'],
        [main='theatre'],
        [main='pub'],
        [main='telephone'],
        [main='beverages'],
        [main='hairdresser'],
        [main='supermarket'],
        [main='bakery'],
        [main='mobile_phone'],
        [main='tailor'],
        [main='car_parts'],
        [main='computer'],
        [main='clothes'],
        [main='car_repair'],
        [main='funeral_directors'],
        [main='dry_cleaning'],
        [main='butcher'],
        [main='seafood'],
        [main='hardware'],
        [main='bicycle'],
        [main='motorcycle'],
        [main='tyres'],
        [main='photo'],
        [main='courthouse'],
        [main='information'],
        [main='camp_site'],
        [main='viewpoint'],
        [main='alpine_hut'],
        [main='guest_house'],
        [main='hostel'],
        [main='hotel'],
        [main='museum'],
        [main='beach_resort'],
        [main='playground'],
        [main='motel']

[LucieGueuning]

14:
Airport 14
Hospital/ health centre 14 (cf comment of Jorieke for different tagging)
15:
[main='kindergarten'], 15
[main='school'], 15
[main='university'], 15
16:
BUT name of school can be at 16 level
[main='police'], 16
[main='drinking_water'], 16
[main='toilets'], 16
[main='shower'], 16
[main='townhall'], 16
[main='cinema'], 16
[main='social_facility'], 16
[main='community_centre'], 16
[main='courthouse'], 16
[main='museum'], 16
17:
[main='supermarket'], 17
[main='dentist'], 17
[main='bakery'], 17
[main='guest_house'], 17
[main='hostel'], 17
[main='hotel'], 17
[main='motel'], 17
18:
[main='grave_yard'], 18
[main='cafe'], 18
[main='bar'], 18
[main='restaurant'], 18
[main='fuel'], 18
[main='bank'], 18
[main='taxi'], 18
[main='car_rental'], 18
[main='money_transfer'], 18
[main='fast_food'], 18
[main='library'], 18
[main='bureau_de_change'], 18
[main='theatre'], 18
[main='pub'], 18
[main='telephone'], 18
[main='hairdresser'], 18
[main='mobile_phone'], 18
[main='tailor'], 18
[main='car_parts'], 18
[main='computer'], 18
[main='clothes'], 18
[main='car_repair'], 18
[main='funeral_directors'], 18
[main='dry_cleaning'], 18
[main='butcher'], 18
[main='seafood'], 18
[main='hardware'], 18
[main='bicycle'], 18
[main='motorcycle'], 18
[main='tyres'], 18
[main='photo'], 18
[main='information'], 18
[main='camp_site'], 18
[main='beach_resort'], 18
[main='playground'], 18
TO BE REMOVED:
[main='beverages'], REMOVE
[main='alpine_hut'], REMOVE
[main='studio'], REMOVE (what is that about?)
[main='arts_centre'], REMOVE
[main='viewpoint'], REMOVE

[yohanboniface]

Thanks! Unloading zoom 17 seems like a right move :)
I'd love some other views on this. Anyone? :)

cc @skorasaurus @severinmenard @jaakkoh

[main='studio'], REMOVE (what is that about?)

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dstudio i.e. TV or radio studio

[main='arts_centre'], REMOVE

Not sure I agree with this one. I feel like this is an important feature wherever in the world! :)
And I remember at least two field missions of mines where we were interacting with arts centers.

[main='beverages'], REMOVE

General remark: AFAIK this style is not just about humanitarian people (aka NGO people and such) but I'd say is more generally targeted to people actually living in those countries not well served by other renderings.
Now I'm not sure about the specific case of beverages shops, but from my experience it's part of the local life just like everywhere.
That said, on this discussion we have three options:

• move a given feature to another zoom level
• totally remove a given feature
• give more or less priority to a given feature; in this case for example a feature with low priority can be rendered only if there is no feature with more priority very close to it

My 2 cents :)

[LucieGueuning]

@Jorieke please help me to response on that. Thanks

[skorasaurus]

Hi,

Lucie, thank you for sharing your opinions and analysis. I know there's certainly improvements that need to be made (selecting which POIs to display, their zoom level, and their icons) and even when we were more actively developing this years ago, we recognized this.

I haven't made a full, thorough review of your proposed list, but I did notice that amenity=marketplace isn't on there #22

Regarding removal:
I disagree to remove the arts center and the studio. As @yohanboniface stated this is not for NGOs but for also people living there, I'd humbly suggest that studios and arts centers would remain at zoom 18.
For beverages, If I recall correctly, there were dedicated places to purchase juices, sodas/pop, and water in bulk (en masse, like a couple cases to later sell at small boutiques) in Haiti and Senegal.
Also see https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/shop=beverages#map for its use.

I would love to get more people who live in these areas to make these decisions (perhaps some of the organizers of the local OSM chapters there and any local NGOs there who use this map). I admit, I don't have time to coordinate that and get them involved... My current job and assisting the locally OSM and open data communities where I live keeps me quite busy.
This leads to some fundamental questions of who should control what is on or off the map and there are others are certainly more qualified than me by living there and growing the OSM communities there to make the decisions; and eventually HOT and those communities may want to decide to revise the map.

cc @Xapitoun in haiti.

[Jorieke]

Agreed with @skorasaurus for arts_centre and studio

How are the beverages exactly tagged? I was looking on taginfo and for amenity=beverages I only found 5 of them https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=amenity%3Dbeverages

In general: happy to see this layer as rather a 'local OpenStreetMap communities of the south' layer. This was actually one of the reasons I wanted to catch up with you @yohanboniface before really investing in this. What is the purpose of this layer, and would it be a problem if this would be slightly changed - since with our comments Lucie and I are now pointing it in the direction of a layer for a humanitarian aid organisation.

[skorasaurus]

@Jorieke - it's shop=beverages :)

[yohanboniface]

In general: happy to see this layer as rather a 'local OpenStreetMap communities of the south' layer. [...] with our comments Lucie and I are now pointing it in the direction of a layer for a humanitarian aid organisation.

It's yet to be demonstrated that those two usages are in conflict ;)
Basically, a map is an editorial vision of a territory. In this case, I think we are trying to have a map dedicated to territories not well covered by other renderings (road surface, specific icons like water quality…). This editorial view is luckily to be shared by humanitarian and local people, given they also share the territory.

And I do think this thread is going in the right direction by better managing POIs icons in zoom 17, which is quite overloaded.
That said, the more I think about it, the more I think we should use "priority" over "moving to zoom 18", and certainly increase a bit the margin between two icons, so we keep our priority when a given area is crowded, but other POIs can raise if they are isolated.

[jeisenbe]

I think [amenity=place_of_worship](url
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dplace_of_worship) should be rendered one or two zoom levels sooner. Mosques, Temples, Synagogues and Churches are significant neighborhood / village landmarks, and also serve as community centers in many places where no other meeting halls are available.

I would also like to see amenity=marketplace rendered at z15 or z16. Traditional markets, bazaars and pasars are very important in most non-western countries. Here in Asia the names of the pasars are more well know than the names of their neighborhoods, and there are often only 2 or 3 markets in a town. These may be the only places to buy fresh vegetables and meat, and often are surrounded by a high density of other shops, bus stations and other points of interest.

(I'm working on downloading Docker and getting a testing environment set up, but it will probably take a couple more weeks to finish downloading everything. But eventually I'll try to do some PRs to address open issues, once I figure things out)