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Develop an MEV Taxonomy #24
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Thank you @CarboClanC for putting this issue up! Here are questions I'd like to address in our discussion on MEV taxonomy today:
Suggestion: We stop calling value extracted MEV extracted but simply keep to value extracted from transaction prioritisation/ordering?
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I like the taxonomy of sticking with extractable and extracted MEV. Not sure I understand your suggestion @obadiaa. |
In the same direction as @obadiaa can extraction strategies be defined in terms of their external effects? Think of price slippage, liquidation of user funds, some other subversion of protocols (governance? staking?). The problem with such an approach is that there may be lots of overlap where extraction can actually do several of them at once. |
Summary: I am supportive of extractable/extracted at a high level. Then, identify if it's a trade, an arb, or a liquidation in the single transaction context. Finally, in the multi-transaction context, identify if it's good MEV or bad MEV. Re-writing the definitions:
For example, we'd say that a block was 75% extracted if there were 10 ETH worth of arbs, but only 7.5 ETH was arbed. Finding a number for the "extractable value" of a block seems difficult to me, as it is effectively equivalent to writing a searcher that can discover every opportunity given the blockchain's current state (and optionally a list of pending mempool txs). As for "labelling", the current labels are in terms of the action being done: trade, arb and liquidation @sbaks0820. These labels are quite simplistic, because they only inspect 1 transaction which does 1 or more things (e.g. a tx may be tagged as both a liquidation and an arb). I can see us generating additional labels over multi-transaction contexts.
Subversion of protocol attacks may matter in the case of a governance vote, where the deadline to reach quorum is in T and the miner is bribed to censor all transactions voting towards the quorum for T+1. Observing censorship-related MEV generation seems hard to me. Maybe we could call that dark MEV, in the sense that the miner makes money but nobody can detect it since a censored transaction is indistinguishable from a normal pending transaction or one that was dropped due to network conditions? cc @pdaian @obadiaa I do not think we should exchange the MEV term for more granular terms. Insertion and ordering-related MEV looks the same on-chain, and as I wrote above we wouldn't be able to meaningfully detect censorship-related MEV. |
I like the distinguishing between extracted and extractable. Not to bikeshed too much, but maybe worth picking a different word for either so we don't have ambiguity when using "MEV"? One thing I've been wondering about it is like x-block re-ordering or censoring (e.g. instead of just re-ordering your liquidation so mine lands first, I simply leave it sitting the mempool for another block) as well as L2 extraction (e.g. if you're on a zk-rollup AMM and your proof generator sandwiches you) |
The mev-inspect system has not yet implemented a distinction between "good" and "bad MEV. After working with the mev-inspect data, it also seems like there is another bucket of data i'm not sure what to call:
Because this ??? term is not the delta between extractable and extracted. We are outsourcing the searching for extractable to bots and assuming they are perfect at what they do. And while we're bike-shedding: it is kind of unfortunate to distinguish subtly different concepts via a suffix to "extract". It has already confused conversion in discord. |
The meme of 'MEV' in my head mostly corresponds to single-block extractions (and I wonder if that's true of others who haven't generalized to multi-block), in which case 'mempool' extractable value could be a consideration. Obviously doesn't cover multi-block, re-org oriented extractions as phil pointed out. |
Hello 👋 Here is a brief summary of the outcome of the discussion we had yesterday on MEV taxonomy, thanks to everyone who joined and participated in the discussion! Proposition 1: MEV re-defined from Miner Extractable Value to Maximum Extractable ValuePros:
Cons:
Proposition 2: creating a term to denote the value that has been extracted: Realised Extractable Value (REV)Pros:
Cons:
Proposition 3: creating a term to denote the value extractable by entities with no hashrate: Bot Extractable ValueThe introduction of this new term is less for academic reasons and more for practical reasons. Pros:
Cons:
Proposition 4: Differentiate between different types of value extracted@gakonst proposal: labelling single txs into simple buckets (eg. arb, liquidation, etc) and then looking at sequences of txs for more advanced labels (eg. Uniswap sandwiching). It can be hard to label sequences for example: Intuitively there seems to be a difference between intended (incentivised bot activity) and unintended MEV, the negative consequences of MEV usually falling in the unintended MEV case. It's easier to classify things as 'good' MEV, much harder to classify them as bad unless we've already classified similar sequences in the past. What needs to be done:
To dos:
Other suggestions of terms and ideas
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Am a big fan of maximum extractable value and realized extractable value Mainly because "Damn, have you seen the REVs on Uniswap last week?!" is now a valid sentence |
Milkshake Extracted ValueQuite simply, we know that this milkshake will in fact, (sic) "...bring all the 'boys to the yard." Re: Proposition #3There are already ERC20 tokens that enable/derive utility by being tied to miner hash rate. What constitutes not "having hash rate"? Comment on transactional taxonomyAlso, bad and good? Could we use a term similar to negative externality or something similar? Maybe Full Deadweight Transactions, Partial Deadweight, etc. |
Thank you all for a wonderful discussion! :) We're partitioning FRP-1 into smaller chunks, the first of which will keep the number and tackle this issue #39. Closing in favor of that. |
Proposition: Do nothing "Miner extractable value" is Lindy already. It is perfectly fine for researchers to continue referring to it as miner extractable value long after miners are out of the picture. At that point, we'll likely just continue using MEV as the term, and its full form will be a tidbit from history. Plenty of acronyms evolve this way, their full forms are forgotten instead of being redefined. |
As for extractable versus extracted, just go with whatever flows naturally. "MEV" could by definition refer to extractable value, and "MEV extracted" would refer to actually extracted value. I personally don't relate to the whole formalising language thing. |
More specifically I don't think the field has ossified anywhere enough to warrant freezing definitions for what terms mean or forcing researchers to use a common language .. when everything has exceptions and nuances that could potentially evolve with time. Maybe 2 years from now MEV is a solved topic, maybe it isn't but looks completely different due to consensus changes. |
wip here from @fiiiu, closing this issue :) please re-open if you'd like to comment! |
Defining a taxonomy for MEV is important at this stage of our research, in particular a systematic framework, and consistent language and definitions for the sake of clarity and rigor.
Related FRP: FRP-1
We adopted the following definition for MEV in our blog post:
Miner extractable value (MEV) is a measure devised to study consensus security by modeling the profit a miner (or validator, sequencer, or other privileged protocol actor) can make through their ability to arbitrarily include, exclude, or re-order transactions from the blocks they produce. MEV includes both ‘conventional’ profits from transaction fees and block rewards, and ‘unconventional’ profits from transaction reordering, transaction insertion, and transaction censorship within the block a miner is producing.
A formal definition of Miner Extractable Value in the context of Extractable Value in the soon to be published paper by Daian et. al "Clockwork Finance" is as follows:
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Please post your questions you would like to address in our discussion of MEV taxonomy, or your suggested approach in defining MEV taxonomy, as comments under this issue.
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